Some thoughts about "Remorse"

[luridlurker.livejournal.com]

Some grumpy thoughts about "Remorse"


In consideration of the massive continuity errors of the latest episode—is that just sloppy writing or (and) sloppy producing, or do they think we viewers are stupid?
 Episodes that follow each other but where something fundamental that happened in the episode(s) before is just forgotten? The total rape of Chase's character? The stupidity of Foreman and 13's on and off love affair? Wilson, who one time hates Cuddy for the way she treated House, and a moment later is angry about how House treated Cuddy "over all the years", which is total nonsense, even for Wilson? 
"Remorse" made no sense because of the position it had inside the series, especially not after "Wilson" or "The Down Low". It's as if they pulled an old and forgotten script out of the drawer and filmed it down in haste, not caring whatever, how little sense it made at that point, and just thrust it into the show randomly.
This show has producers in abundance, but none of them catches continuity errors and wrong characterizations? Do they just not care (not even HL?), or...what else is wrong with them? 

Your thoughts on this?

Comments

[delurking.livejournal.com]

One thing I have to say is I don't really feel like Wilson was talking about Cuddy. Wilson was just using her name so he didn't blatantly refer to himself. He's what we call passive aggressive. Also, he doesn't hate Cuddy. He may be irritated with both of their actions toward one another.

As for the rest, IAWTC. Chase was barely even around for some reason, Foreteen already died and I hope 13 finds a nice girl or guy somewhere that we don't have to watch on screen, and the side plot didn't make much sense. Like why did that guy make House think he failed that seminar? Just to make House feel bad? Why?

Really, I mostly enjoyed the POTW and "You said we'd never go to bed angry" and other such banter.

[culuyetille.livejournal.com]

IAWTC. I actually hoped to the last minute that the whole failed-because-of-switched-papers thing was a prank played by Wilson to try and make the best out of House refusing to apologise by loading him with tons of guilt. Would've been fun, at least. :)

[soophelia.livejournal.com]

I agree.

[fisting-pigs.livejournal.com]

I also agree, it's almost as though the writers don't talk to eachother or something, I so badly want them to go 'hang on a second, we're on season 6. SHIT WHAT THE HELL HAVE WE BEEN DOING' and then start actually writing stuff that isn't blatant filler.

I have trepidations about the next episode to be honest, it could go either way really; another filler or another sort of go at the comedic stuff we saw in The Down Low.

[luridlurker.livejournal.com]

It's strange that it seems impossible for this show to get enough decent writers and the quality of the episodes vary so strongly.

Next episode...who knows. With a lot of bad luck it gets the awful way of "Let them eat cake". I'm rather disturbed they will destroy the beautiful new loft.

[bery26.livejournal.com]

About Chase:
I agree on this point, they made a big deal about how the Dibala case was torturing him and stuff and suddenly they dropped it, right after his wife left him, when he should be doing way worse, there should be at least a hint of how he's dealing. But I'm staying hopeful for this though, it was played on episode 9 and maybe they'll mention it again soon, guess they can't deal with all the issues and plotlines in every single episode. Really hope it comes up again, Chase is way too interesting a character to stay too long on the background.

About Thirteen and Foreman:
I don't really know what you meant with what you said about this, but I can't bring myself to care that much about this relationship, I rarely see any fun or interest in it, whether it's functional or disfunctional.

About Wilson and Cuddy:
Wilson was angry because House got hurt and metaphorically slapped right when he was actually trying to make things work in his relationship with Cuddy, right at the moment where he made himself vulnerable to her, so at the end of the "Wilson" episode Wilson kind of got back at her for it. But Wilson doesn't hate Cuddy and he already "punished" her by taking her place, and it doesn't take away the fact that House did hurt and humilliate Cuddy several times over the seasons while she was in love with him (especially on season 5), and since House actually cares for Cuddy it would be way more significant to appologize to her rather than some random dude he hasn't seen in more than 20 years. Don't think Wilson was angry with House, he was just doing his usual House-lecturing and pointing out what he thinks is right and best for House. He ALWAYS does this, what else is new?

The thing you have to remember is that this show is all about showing/exploring/analyzing every possible point of view of a situation that there might exist, for some people it comes off as inconsistent, but I think it made sense, at least the third point I made, hopefully the Chase matter will make sense soon too.
I do agree that there have been a lot of inconsistencies on the show, but most of them ocurred on season 5, I think they've been doing pretty well so far on this season.

[jomadge.livejournal.com]

You just said everything I was thinking, but put it much better than I could have. Bravo!

[midgar-skyline.livejournal.com]

I'm really hoping they delve into Chase more too. It was some pretty heavy stuff they were getting into to me before they dropped it.

[ends-of-time.livejournal.com]

You are genius. IAWTC like woah.

[m-supercomputer.livejournal.com]

Wilson never "hated" Cuddy - he took the loft away, yes, but that's because he was frustrated with her after she didn't tell him about Lucas and because he wanted to do something for House. He can be upset with her *and* think House has, in general, treated her like crap for years - because they can both be true.

Also, as for Chase's character...I can't even figure out what you're mad about in "Remorse," honestly? He was barely even in the episode.

I thought it was an uneven, clumsy, and not terribly interesting episode, but there were no glaring inconsistencies that I saw. And, hell, every show will have off episodes sometimes.

[luridlurker.livejournal.com]

to Bery26:
I don't agree with you: I don't think Cuddy ever loved House. She fancies him, like a schoolgirl the leader of the sports team, or as in a fifties movie the "dangerous" leather jacket wearing leader of the motorcycle pack. It's infatuation at best, not being in love. And especially not real love. I may remind you of "Let them eat Cake". No one who loves acts that way (the other way around also the hint that there is no real love for Cuddy in House. They would like it to be more, they love the *idea* of being more, but it's just the fun of the game and they do want to sleep with each other. But as they don't get even that simple act done it seems there are some needed emotions missing. Like trust, for one.

Well, the post-Dibala Chase is a road wreck. He is again as bored and boring as he was in the first seasons. And House even regresses into hair jokes again, obviously as perplexed about the change as everyone else. He wanted the new, the grown up Chase in his team, the one who could and would stand up against him. And now he can insult him as he wishes and just gets sullen looks for it. Did we fall into a time tunnel? And I don't care for 13 and Foreman at all but that they annoy me and they take away screen time from the important parts and persons. But someone in the high up loves them dearly and keeps the dead horse alive.

There have been a lot of good episodes in this season so far. And some awful ones where the writers weren't worth a luke warm coffee for their sorry efforts (or whoever is responsible for the final version of the scripts).

[soophelia.livejournal.com]

I agree with everything you've said.

[fourleggedfish.livejournal.com]

I agree re: Cuddy's feelings toward House. It's like they're in lust because they're both sort of hawt people and they did it once 3 decades ago (and it was supposedly good for both parties). But love? No no no. They're not compatible - Cuddy wants a baby daddy, and House just wants a Wilson (even from a non-Hilson-shipper standpoint, House needs a version of Wilson in order to be happy.)

[bery26.livejournal.com]

I think the writers keep hinting (aka, making it so obvious that it turns stupidly obvious, annoying and repetitive) at the fact that Cuddy does love House, everything on season 5 seems to indicate that it's more than a crush. They also seem to be hinting (aka, shoving it down our throats) that House has strong feelings for her too, might even love her, even though it doesn't make much sense to me since he doesn't seem to respect her...

Don't really know what you mean about "Let them eat Cake", how does it prove that Cuddy doesn't love House?

About Chase, sorry but I have never thought he's boring, not now nor in the early seasons. Don't think he has changed more than you would expect for someone who lost his wife and has recently had something really screwed up in his life (the whole Dibala case), don't think House, or anyone else for that matter, is perplexed about it, House always makes jokes like that anyway, don't see how it's a big deal.
I think Chase does stand up to House now, if he disagrees with him, he's definitely not kissing House's ass anymore, and he punched House too. Definitely not a regression from where I see it.

I agree about Thirteen and Foreman, but then again, I think Foreman is boring most of the time anyway :/

The only episode I can say I didn't care much for this season was Instant Karma, all the rest I liked or loved.

[cuddyclothes.livejournal.com]

You can find my take on this episode at http://cuddyclothes.livejournal.com/3368.html

[midgar-skyline.livejournal.com]

What you've mentioned here is actually a huge concern of mine at the moment. The House/Cuddy pairing issue is something I've ranted had concerns over in a previous post (http://midgar-skyline.livejournal.com/37324.html) in my own journal already, and I'll quote a tiny bit of it here because the paragraph is what I would have typed in reply to you if I hadn't already written it.

"The first and probably most controversial opinion I am going to throw out here are my suspicions that many of the House writers themselves seem to be biased towards one of the two major House pairings at the moment (i.e. House/Wilson and House/Cuddy). Everyone has personal opinions, and thus I may be completely wrong and merely reading into things which are not there (God knows writers have it hard, and it's not an easy job - what with all the tense deadlines...), but my problem arises when the episodes see-saw wildly from one extreme to the other in an effort to push a certain agenda (or pairing as it may be)."

House and Cuddy pining(!?) for each other in a we-genuinely-seriously-love-each-other-but-woe-betide-us-that-fate-means-we-can't-be-together à la Romeo and Juliet is quite simply something which just does not make sense to me because I feel as if the producers/some writers are trying to push the "Huddy" as a serious pairing based on true love, whereas I personally just simply cannot see anything beyond crushes, lust, and perhaps misplaced senses of admiration (on both their sides). The pining, on both their parts, is driving me absolutely insane. In this new season I assume we, the audience, are meant to believe House is trying to change. Change is not necessarily a bad thing, but to change this drastically?

Comment continued below due to LJ character-limit.

[midgar-skyline.livejournal.com]

Comment continued from above.


And where, oh where, did the strong Cuddy I admire (up until mid-season three) disappear to? She's hesitant, skittering, apparently knows House would not fit in with her ideal nuclear family (though in my personal opinion, whoever's in charge seems to want to forcibly cram House into the persona of someone who wants this role) but is still not moving on from him after all this time. Again personal opinion only, but I think that while the show may be showing that Cuddy is attempting to move on from House via Lucas, her remorseful/mourning attitude/behaviour towards House or whenever she talks about House (like in her conversation with Wilson in Known Unknowns) shows that she's anything but "over him". She's not "strong" to me anymore, and I'm really trying to change my views but it's hard.

And another quote from a huuuge previous reply I made here (http://midgar-skyline.livejournal.com/37839.html#comments):

"My personal opinion is that House probably thinks he loves Cuddy, or that he "wants" to love her, because that is what he thinks he should do/be feeling. I hover back to season 5's finale, Both Sides Now, where House's own mind in the form of Amber chastises him with the words, "So this is the story you made up about yourself. It's a good one," before his mind conjures Kutner with the rather final words of, "Too bad it isn't true."

I'm also drawing on [the S6x09 episode] Ignorance is Bliss. The POTW storyline where he was deliberately dumbing himself down since it was the only way from his point of view that he could sustain happiness, and because he wanted to want his wife. Frankly, on a very personal note, I was horrified that House approved of the patient continuing to destroy his intellect. It may be lonely at the top, but House has had Wilson beside him for near two decades. Seems like he's still taking Wilson for granted [...]

I was horrified because to me, this was the show saying to the public that even the great Gregory House, genius with unbound curiosity extraordinaire eventually chose (apparent) love over anything else - the choice I'm referring to being what Wilson once asked him: "Do you want to be the man with all the answers, or the man with Cuddy?". And House even showed this approval by handing the guy a bottle of cough syrup. He personally approved of the guy deliberately damaging his brain because he thought it was an understandable choice, and thus the show is showing to us through House that this is apparently a good choice. I'm sorry, I've gone way off-track. It might not be a significant moment to anyone else, but I'm a physicist myself, and it struck too close to home. I was gaping in abject horror during that scene.

Anyways, this comment has run on so long that it's become incoherent to me and I apologize in advance for any offenses taken by my likely not 100% thought-through comments. I'm a very unsocialized person and can often accidentally say things in real life conversations which have implications that I never meant to infer but simply never thought of. These are, however, merely personal opinions and hypotheses and are subject to change, and are in no way in authority over anyone else or their opinions.

[franzinera-68.livejournal.com]

If this episode have been aired before Wilson, I could have accepted it, but really, you're so right. It's like "yeah! We give all of you some candies with the Hilson episodes, but then you'll have to eat broccoli the next 5 months"

Ok Shore. It's your show, your characters but, please? You don't have to share our points of view, but really, you're making such a lame work. If you want so much your stupid love plotline, make another show! House was a hit for the way he was, not for the bothering relationship with his boss.

Now I'm going to re-read all my Holmes books. Doyle knew how to play sutile.

[fourleggedfish.livejournal.com]

"Now I'm going to re-read all my Holmes books. Doyle knew how to play sutile."

Lol - because that's exactly what I'm doing right now. :P

[ends-of-time.livejournal.com]

I'm really not sure why people are so upset about this particular episode. House has always done this: they set up a story arc, it's really intense for a couple episodes, and then when it's served it's purpose, they move on to some more lighter-hearted "filler eps" that eventually combine to set up the next arc. This is the way it's always been. This isn't new at all.

I have a feeling they'll come back to Chase, but maybe not right away, or even in this season. Issues in House are never resolved and tied up nice and neat right at the get-go: case in point, we didn't get any in-depth information about Wilson and his brother until season 5, but the point is, we still got it. In a way, House tries to mimic real life in this way, by presenting problems, showing their immediate effect, and then showing how everyone pushes forward, because that's what happens. And then they bring the problem back, with new effects to demonstrate how devastated situations never really just "go away." I actually appreciate that, for however frustrating the wait can be.

And it's already been said, but Wilson was not in fact siding with Cuddy on anything, and he was most definitely using her as a cover so he wouldn't have to reveal how much he wished House would apologize to him. The fact that House never called him on this rather obvious blind is rather telling, I think. I think it shows House has matured a bit....thoughts?

Anyway, I think the House-Wilson-Cuddy thing is a bit confusing. I get the feeling that Wilson is just generally fed-up with them both, and how utterly dumb and infuriating they were, dancing around each other, psyching each other out, when it was blatantly obvious they both wanted each other, and he had to be their wrangler. It pissed him off, after a time, and he didn't think either of them handled it well, it's just that they traded off being the victim at times. He's annoyed at them both, and frustrated with them both, and has stood up for them both on different occasions.

[bery26.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I agree, with pretty much everything you say, as usual. We're so boring that way xD

About House maturing, I doubt it. I agree that he would have made fun of Wilson for saying that he deserved an appology before and now he didn't, but I think it's more due to his current (attempt to) change, that I think will eventually fail and he'll go back to his old way, vicodin and all.

[idonmatrix.livejournal.com]

To me the best epsiode to date has been WILSON. It was extremely well-written. I loved the House/Wilson scenes in Remorse. Everything else is just junk. Not worthy of a rewatch.

If you go back and watch S1- through S6, one thing is undeniably clear. The only person House can't seem to live without is Wilson. Huddy is just a side show and not a very interesting or sexy one. Who the hell finds it sexy to watch a 50 year old gray haired wrinkled man and forty something woman act like they're 12. House is not interested in Cuddy. House is in love with Wilson. Watch Birthmarks. Watch Wilson. Watch Not Cancer. Watch the Pilot. Watch Wilson's Heart. Watch Dying Changes Everything or No More Mr. Nice Guy or House v. God or All In or Safe or Clueless. House has managed to live without a personal relationship with Cuddy for more than 20 years. Not so with Wilson. House cannot live without Wilson. House needs Wilson just like Wilson needs House. That's the love story they're really telling. Huddy is just a painful distraction. And the best cure for it is TiVo FF.

[4theloveofhouse.livejournal.com]

"The only person House can't seem to live without is Wilson."

THANK YOU! THANK YOU SO MUCH! Thank you so much for saying this. This has always been my thing: If you take a moment and ask yourself, who can House not live without?

For me, friendship-wise or otherwise, the answer will never be Cuddy.

Oh my goodness, it is such a relief to 'hear' someone else say this. Thanks again! : )

[luridlurker.livejournal.com]

I have no time in the moment, but House cannot be interested in Cuddy beyond the obvious (and if they really would want each other they would have slept with each other months, years ago). They just try to best each other. It's about winning. It's about power. When House thought he had actually slept with Cuddy what did he do? He stood on a balcony and bragged loudly to the world about it: I won! I did her! I masterd her! Yeahyeahyeah! That was awful, that was the quintessence of their "relationship".

We have seen House when he is smitten with a woman. How soft spoken he gets, even a bit shy: he was that way with Stacy. He was that way with Lydia. He talked soft and seriously with Antarktis-woman. All women were in a way female Wilsons, in look or demeanor. House wants and needs a Wilson, as someone above said. Right on spot! And beginning with Season 5 and very drastically House is this way with Wilson (beyond the grade he was before)!

House is changing, and all the changes are for Wilson, he is a totally different person now when they are home together and how jerky he still acts at work to everyone there. Some seem to think he tries to change for Cuddy. But that's not what we *see*. And action speaks louder.

Someone asked about Let them eat cake ...if I don't get the episodes confused, it's the one where Cuddy tripwired House, a crippled man. He could have broken himself a leg or arm there. And she let him walk four floors of stairs. A man with chronic leg pain. She was vengeful, she was out to really hurt him, physically, and she went directly for his leg. If I love someone I don't want to physically (or else) hurt them (to that degree). I say again: this is power gaming, nothing else. And the sooner House realized it too, the better for him. And for Wilson's poor nerves.

[ivory303.livejournal.com]

it's the one where Cuddy tripwired House, a crippled man. He could have broken himself a leg or arm there.

Drive by comment to say: is that really any different than when Wilson sawed through his cane? Motivations aside, both could have resulted in House being injured. If we're going to compare and contrast his relationships with Wilson and Cuddy let's at least examine them evenly.

[de-throned.livejournal.com]

First, Wilson never, never hated Cuddy. They are friends, they always have been and will be friends.
Second, how damn obvious do the writers have to be? I can't believe there are people here who still can't tell Wilson was jealous. He only talks about Cuddy because in House's mind, they are at the same level. He can't possibly bring up himself, can he? He can't go to House and be like, "why didn't you apologize to me, after all that had happened?" or say "I have loved you all these years and all you give me is constant abuse." This is not the first time Wilson used Cuddy as a shield for his own feelings. Watch the show from the beginning, and you'll notice it's always been there.

Also, as House/Wilson shippers, it is important to learn to read between the lines and catch subtle clues the writers leave behind. Don't be dreaming of a big chunk of bread when there are crumbs. Be content with what you have, or else you'll never be happy.

[idonmatrix.livejournal.com]

I definitely agree with you that Wilson was talking about himself when he brought up Cuddy. Wilson asked the same question when he thought House was paying wayyyyyyyyyy! too much attention to Crandall in "Who's Your Daddy?

[(Anonymous)]

don't watch the show.

[bery26.livejournal.com]

Then this is a very weird choice of a comm to hang out in :S

[luridlurker.livejournal.com]

haha, why do you comment, if you don't watch the show?

Well "hate" was a bit hyperbolic of me. But he resents her a lot lately (and with reason) and no more "good friend Lisa", his partner in crime when it came to protecting House.

Yes, I agree, Wilson spoke about himself when complaining about House not apologizing to Cuddy.

There is a big difference in what Wilson did with House's cane and what Cuddy did. It was a direct reaction to House's own prank, while Cuddy just overreacted. She didn't play, she went for blood. And the most obvious difference is House's reaction to it. With Wilson House was amused and impressed: he loved it. With Cuddy he
shut down like a beaten dog, like a little kid who is bullied on the school yard. And when he did hit back in the end he didn't go for hurting *her* but just to annoy her by destroying things (and not even her's but the hospital's).

[bery26.livejournal.com]

"There is a big difference in what Wilson did with House's cane and what Cuddy did"

If it is about the intention, what Cuddy did was obviously petty, immature and cruel, but House is capable of being exactly the same way when he doesn't get his way.
If it is about the damage House could have recieved, then Wilson could have hurt House the same as Cuddy could have, no matter whether it's just a prank or actually seeking revenge.

And I don't think House felt bullied, he just knew Cuddy would eventually feel bad about what she did if he didn't get back at her and then he would have the upper hand.

Btw, I think it would be easier if you respond to comments directly (hitting the "Reply to this" button at the end of any comment) instead of adding another independent comment (hitting the "Post a new comment" button at the beginning or end of all the comments). Sorry, I'm just asking cause I get a bit confused trying to see who you're replying to everytime x)

[chase-austenfan.livejournal.com]

I agree re: the continuity.

My theory is that when a show rises in popularity the writers no longer write for the characters and the intrinsicness of the show- they start to write for the ratings and the viewers. I don't think that this is a conscious deliberate pandering, I just think that there it is Really difficult to be as unselfconscious about the writing of a book or a show when you know that "the eyes of the world are on you". Which is a shame.

I am completely with you on the House/Cuddy relationship. It makes me sad because in my opinion originally the relationship seemed to be very healthy. And the pining thing makes me go, "Whaaaa???" too because of the length of time where there wasn't pining (at least not overtly) and because it seems like there used to be more respect and friendship under the banter and flirting. I used to feel that a relationship could be feasable (I didn't ship- but it seemed plausable in my opinion). Then suddenly there seemed to be a desperation and Cuddy's character seemed to be suddenly made into a weak-kneed schoolgirl.

It was like Cameron- season 3- it was over the top. Growing and having realisations and having multiple layers/feelings- that is fine. But... to have a character seem to go from one end to another without sufficient evidence as to *why* this would suddenly happen is frustrating. I could understand Cameron getting "harder"- but... it was like angel Cameron turned into Dark Cameron. It Really annoyed me and then Cameron came back in season 4.

Right on the nose with Chase's character. He's totally angsty about parental issues- ends up killing a patient because of dealing with Daddy's unexpected (to him) death, and then POOF- NO parental issues at all?? Dibala is *Such* a source of angst that it ends up breaking up his marriage and then *POOF* - no problem??

Obviously the writers cannot and should not focus Soley on one character Too much... but it just seems like they *Have* made things clear in other episodes that things brought up in one episode where still there and not totally dead without beating you over the head with it.

I do agree that Wilson's back and forth seems to be consistant with his character. He did the same thing with things with Stacy. "Don't do it!!" and then "You idiot, why didn't you do it??" I think that delurking made a great point- I think that he gets irritated with both of their actions. Also, I think that Wilson has a Very difficult time sometimes with admitting to his needs and wants- so it is easier for him to complain about an injustice that is done to someone else.